Episode 36

Writing Tips to Catapult Your Messages with Sammi Dittloff

Welcome, Sammi Dittloff to Saturday Soundbites! She is a phenomenal writer and storyteller and in this episode, she shares some of her strategies for crafting powerful copywriting to truly inspire action. Her skills and talent are unmatched and it is an honor to have her on Saturday Soundbites.

As a life-long writer, she has had her hands in a little of everything and you can always count on high-quality results with Sammi. Join Veronica and Sammi as they talk shop and discuss how the power of words can truly change the trajectory of your brand.
Be ready to take notes and start sharpening your writing skills!

This is an episode you won't want to miss. You can learn more about Sammi at www.hisammi.com. Here are some of the books she references, you will want to add them to your library. She also shares some great online resources. Start with the Why - https://amzn.to/3owmcoi.

The Elements of Style - https://amzn.to/3irdcgC.

Painless 1099 had a campaign called "Don't get F*cked on Self-Employment Taxes" https://www.facebook.com/painless1099/videos/1714658788813033/
How to Read a Book

Transcript

[00:00:00] Veronica: Hello. Hello and welcome to Saturday soundbites. I'm your host, Veronica Sofer, and you are listening to the number one podcast where we talk about visibility, strategy, public relations, marketing, advertising, branding, networking, and all the things you need to know to grow your visibility strategy and live your best brands life.

[00:00:22] So I am. Thrilled to be here with you. If you are listening on our podcast, make sure you hit subscribe because we want you to get notices every time another episode is available. And if you're watching on Facebook, make sure you put comments so that my guests and I can get back to you. And if you're watching this on the replay hashtag replay so that we can circle back and get you any detail or follow up that you might need.

[00:00:44] Now here at Saturday soundbites, we know that there are some basic components that make up a really strong visibility strategy and messaging strategy. And part of that has to do with the words that you select and how you use them. So today we're going to focus on that and I've got a phenomenal guest, Ms.

[00:00:59] Sammy Jitloff, who's going to talk to us about copywriting and the structure and the formula that really makes up powerful, powerful copy. This will change. Your brand's way of communicating with folks. So be ready to take notes. I'm going to bring her up and introduce you to Sammy Sammy. Thank you so much for joining

[00:01:18] Sammi: us.

[00:01:18] Hi, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here. So excited

[00:01:22] Veronica: words are my favorite copywriting is my favorite thing to talk about as a journalism major, you speak to my heart and I want you to be able to drop all those gyms for all of our listeners and viewers so that they can start utilizing. Your tips and strategies to really grow their messaging.

[00:01:39] So tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll get into the.

[00:01:43] Sammi: Sure. So I like to say, you know, I've been writing ever since I could hold a pencil. My, my favorite claim to fame is that when I was nine years old, I wrote a 40 page autobiography and I still have it. And on the back cover, it said all the things that I wanted to do, one of which was be a writer.

[00:02:00] I think. Like cartoonist actor, musician. I've done a lot of those things, which is exciting. But the thing that I always go back to is writing and I've worked for big agencies, small agencies I've worked in house and also in academia, I was a TA for a couple of years and I actually got to teach media writing.

[00:02:21] Which was my favorite thing, because it made me a better writer in two years, like in a way that in the past. 30 ish years I haven't been able to do so. Those that's kind of my background. I mean, I started, I started working for the onion, which is another favorite brag of mine in the Milwaukee office. And I did some promotional things and got to write some content.

[00:02:46] And after that it was like, I was always trying to change. Writing projects wherever I could. I had an analytics role at the big agency that I worked at and did analytics for social media clients for about a dozen of them. But every chance I got, I was like, I want details in the reports and then, oh, well we ha we have a tourism client that we need someone to write for.

[00:03:06] Do you want to tell corny jokes and put puns? I'm like, yes, please. Let me, let me do that. And so then as my career advanced, I just tried to find more and more opportunities for writing. And now I would say that's, that's primarily what I do every single day is I'm writing blogs, I'm writing emails you know, any kind of like landing page copy, even something as simple as, you know, a caption on an ad can really make a big difference in how you write it.

[00:03:33] And the consistency across a brand is something that I really like to focus on this. Yeah, no,

[00:03:39] Veronica: that makes complete sense. And for those of us who like to tell ourselves as writers, there's lots of different writing styles, but when it comes to online marketing, entrepreneurship and even some of the brick and mortar businesses, when you're talking about marketing and writing for marketing, tell us how that differs a little bit from maybe something else you might be really good at,

[00:04:01] Sammi: right.

[00:04:02] Sure. So I could use the example of when my students would come in and I was a media writing TA a lot of them had this style of writing that came from high school English classes, which was like very long sentences. Big words, things that were kind of hard to wrap your head around. Maybe they were trying to write to fit some kind of word requirement.

[00:04:23] So they'd just like pad what they were writing. And so I would just, I would call it like hack and slash you know, just red pen through all of it. I'm like, no, try to get across what you're trying to say in as few words as possible, you know? Right now with blogging a lot, a lot of the trend has been long form blogging, you know, writing at least a thousand to 1500 words or more.

[00:04:46] Now I'm starting to see the trend go back. And when I started blogging, I think it was like, I would write 250 word blogs. So the word limit kind of fluctuates all over the place. I think the important thing to remember in style, even. Algorithm shifts is the writing that you put out there in the universe on the internet should be easy to read, easy to understand people should be able to learn something from, from everything that you're providing.

[00:05:13] And it should be at that. Like, you know, I think they say like eighth grade level is usually good for news stories. The same. I think it's true for blogs. Even if you're writing something highly technical, I mean, I've written for. It topics and accounting and tax and things like that. And even with that, you can still make it approachable.

[00:05:34] You can still explain it in a way that people can understand, because if, if people get confused about anything that you're writing, whether it's what your brand is about or what it is, you're trying to say, that's when you've lost that person and they're just going to navigate away from your page and go find something else that makes more sense to them.

[00:05:53] So, you know, in terms of. Accounting. That would be like I'm competing against Investopedia because they write things in very plain English. And, you know, so think about who in your space is writing things in a way that is really approachable. Where do you go when you need a resource? That's the level that you should be writing?

[00:06:13] Yeah, no,

[00:06:14] Veronica: that's a really great tip. I hadn't thought about that. And oftentimes we want to be original, but we know that there's a formula that works. And so we try to mimic that maybe from someone we are competing with or someone we really like, but it really has to be about finding your voice and that unique part of your brand.

[00:06:33] How do you help people identify what that is?

[00:06:37] Sammi: So I think so. I want to. Follow up on one thing that you said. Yeah, I think it's always good to pull inspiration from competitors because you do want to see what people are doing. That's right. But you're totally right. You need to set yourself apart because you know, that was something, there was a webinar I was in recently where it was like, look at these three, you know professional services, websites, their language is almost identical.

[00:07:00] You know, the top five to 10 ranking might all sound the same. So the way that you have to cut through. Is to be unique. I would say, you know, one good way to figure that out is you could do, could do like an exercise. You could, you could even do like a vision board or something like that. Like, what are things that you want people to think of when they, when they look at you, when they read your content, you could cut out words and put them on something.

[00:07:25] You could use, like a mind mapping tool. You could survey your current customers and ask them, you know, What do you, why did you decide to work with me? That's actually a question I ask a lot. When I interview clients for testimonials, I say, why did you choose us over other people? And I use that language in our future campaigns.

[00:07:46] Oh,

[00:07:46] Veronica: that's brilliant. That's really, really good.

[00:07:49] Sammi: Yeah. Yeah. So.

[00:07:51] Veronica: I was just going to say, do you find that people are forthcoming when you, when you survey them? I mean, do you feel like it's an honest exchange of feedback?

[00:08:01] Sammi: I think what you have to do, I would say I had better luck getting more specific language when I talk to someone one-on-one I understand that there's not always time to do that, but.

[00:08:12] It does help to have that conversation. Cause usually you get the right answer once you ask those additional questions. So you might have a list of questions that you're planning on asking them, and then you get to the point where, okay, well, why did you pick us over others? I'm trying to think of an example.

[00:08:29] You know, well, we have that personal relationship. We feel like we're not just a, another number when we work with you. Okay. So tell me more about that. Tell me about an experience where you were burned in the past. Tell me about an experience where we felt personal to you. And then usually that's like, Th the more specific word or more buzzy quote comes out that then it's like, oh, that's that extra personal twist?

[00:08:56] Another book I would recommend is find your, why. I think that's, you know, a great way to start thinking about, okay, well this is on the surface, why I do what I do. But if I dig down a few more layers, this is really what I'm hoping, how I'm hoping to impact. The world around me and everybody has got that.

[00:09:17] It's just a matter of uncovering what that is because on the surface it might be like, oh, I want to help people. You know, write better coffee, but really it's, you know, I think that everybody has something unique to offer and I want to celebrate them in the way that they should be celebrated. So it's just a matter of kind of doing an archeological dig and finding that.

[00:09:39] And there's all kinds of different ways that you can do it. Those are just a couple examples. No,

[00:09:43] Veronica: that's a great, it's a great suggestion. And I think anytime anyone is thinking about how to grow their business or expanded, or even just be reflective on their business, digging down into the why is going to answer so many questions.

[00:09:56] And then you can repurpose that those answers and really grow your brand with it. So I love that. That's a great piece of advice. What are some trends that you're seeing on the online space or in the online space that you think people need to really be paying attention to when it comes to the way that they're messaging in the written word?

[00:10:14] Sammi: I would say, you know, working. So primarily I've been working in professional services in the past couple of years. And it's interesting because I feel like I get to see. They're not necessarily the ones who are going to take the risks first, but I really know that something has become a trend. Once they start asking me questions about it, then I'm like, okay, so we're ready to talk about this now.

[00:10:40] And it's been interesting cause I had. I got approached and asked, well, I I'd like to see us inject more humor and more personality into, into our site, into what we're doing. And I'm like, great. I would love to do that. And we've been doing it in small ways and adding little cheeky things and here and there.

[00:10:59] But I think, you know, even, even if you're in an industry where you feel like, no, we have to be. Buttoned up and professional and maybe on the border of stuffy all the time. I don't really think that's the way that people want to interact with anyone anymore. They want to feel like they have that personal connection.

[00:11:18] So for example, I worked with a manufacturer he produces gaskets, which is not that exciting of a, of a, an item, but to him making gaskets, that's the most important thing in the world and the way that he describes it. Yeah. You can't, you can't survive without gaskets. You know, he's like, it's the little, it's the little part in everything that, that makes the bigger part go.

[00:11:45] And without that it wouldn't work and we're, we're the key to making everything else work, you know? And he described it as like cutting cookies. It's kind of like cutting cookies and we've got the best cookie cutters and the business. And the idea started over. Over wine in, I can't remember what country it was.

[00:12:03] He was like, well, we were watching someone stopped and we were drinking the wine from the stop graves and all this stuff. And it's like, wow. Wait, we're still talking about gaskets. I had no idea and he infused so much personality into what he did. And most other sites that sell gaskets are just like, here are the machines that we have and the services that we offer, and here are the specifications.

[00:12:26] You can call our sales representative to order, and he's just gone leaps and bounds past that just by. It's just fine. And I mean, I wrote his content just by talking to him and he was so excited. It got me excited and I still remember it because it was very memorable information. So I think, you know, putting that personal touch, not being afraid to be yourself is a, is a really big thing.

[00:12:53] I know I've, I've shared this in other venues, but I have my yoga teacher talks about like and I'll, I'll give her a shout out, Susanna burka, talkie. She talks about like, she's like, oh, look at this pen. You know, if there's people on two sides of the spectrum and then these folks are in the middle, like my audiences right here.

[00:13:09] And so these people. Necessarily gonna get it. These people, I, baby, I'm not meeting their needs, but anyone who's right in here, they're going to understand what I'm talking about. And I think you need to be unafraid to lose people who aren't the right fit for you. And, and that's something I run into with a lot of clients, as you know, I'll be like, well, who's your ideal customer?

[00:13:33] And there'll be like anyone who wants to spend money. Okay. I mean, we got to get way more specific than that. A really good book. I read in the past couple months. And it's, it's been around for a while is the one page marketing book. And I think the ER's at the one page marketing strategy. Oh my gosh.

[00:13:51] But it's all about having a one-page marketing plan and, and they talk about getting hyper specific with your persona. You know, not just if you've got a salon, it's not just people who need their hair cut, but it's, you know, maybe new moms who are looking to get out of the house and do something nice for themselves, you know, after they've been cooped up inside and they don't remember the last time they took a shower.

[00:14:16] Well, that's a very specific audience. So you know what, in my experience, the more specific you are in talking to. You know, your particular audience member, then that person is going to hear you and they're going to reach out. And the more general you are, the more it's confusing. Like, well, I don't know if this is for me and you'll, I, I really do believe you'll lose more people by not being specific.

[00:14:42] So don't be afraid to be specific. Take risks, be human. Yeah. You know, if, if it's natural for you to use some colorful language or puns or whatever, you know, do that, that's who you are and you'll attract the people who like that.

[00:14:57] Veronica: Yeah. That makes complete sense. And I think it's so profound that you said that because so many of us want to fit into this scenario of who we think we should be, especially if you're in the online space, but the reality is there's so many people like you.

[00:15:11] You it's your uniqueness that is going to attract people to your business. So I'm so glad you said that because I often see people take advantage of that and it is a risk and most of the time they do lose some clients, but I think it's probably worth it because you're experiencing more joy in your day as you're collaborating with them in that creative process.

[00:15:29] So I think that's a great.

[00:15:31] Sammi: Yeah, I think you form deeper, more genuine connections with your audience if you're just who you are. And, and that's something that I, I do try to encourage whenever possible. And I know, like I said, in some industries, it's harder to take that risk, but oh, I'm trying to think of who it is.

[00:15:48] There's somebody out there who's doing like tax services and it's very. Lots of swears and stuff like that. And it's like, you know, it was something like 10 90 nines don't suck. And then, and I, I wish if I I'll find the resource and we can add it in the discussion or something, that's a good example of it.

[00:16:08] Doesn't really matter what industry you're in. There's somebody who's doing it. And they've garnered a very specific audience for doing.

[00:16:16] Veronica: Oh, I love that. That is so exciting. Well, what are some other tips that people can start implementing today when it comes to their copywriting? Even if they're not doing it themselves, maybe they outsource it, but what are some things that they need to be looking for as, as they're growing their.

[00:16:32] Sammi: Sure. I think it is important to have something like a brand guide or a brand manual. It's something that I actually created in my work last year. And I use it as my resource for everything. So when somebody in my firm is writing a blog, I send them the brand manual and say, here's the voice and style guide.

[00:16:53] Here's what we're going for. Even if you can't write. Exactly right. Just so you know what I'm shooting for. I'll help edit. Don't worry, you know, but or, you know, even when, when we're working on a project, like a design project, like this is, this is who we are. This is our target audience. Everything is in there from, from our, our voice, our personas, our.

[00:17:16] You know, our style guides, our templates to what's our strategy for this year and next year, how do they correspond to certain business goals? You know, all of that stuff and like, what are our procedures? So I have everything in one manual. It's I call it, you know, my like hit by a bus, you know, if I'm gone, this is what you need to know.

[00:17:38] But I think it's important for even if it is a team of one to have that. Cause that can. Guide everything else you're doing. So when you're working on a project, like maybe you just think, oh, I need to start a podcast or I need to write a blog or I need to have a newsletter. Then it's like, well, w what is this, what am I trying to do with this?

[00:17:57] And where is this taking me? And, you know, the best advice I've heard this year. Too, many of us are trying to do too many things at once. It's good to do one to two things really well to start. And you can always expand later on. So if you can tie your brand goals or your business goals in with the projects that you're doing and the things that you're right.

[00:18:18] Then you can keep going back to that as you're working on it, like, wait, why am I writing about this topic? All right. Cause it'll help me get farther down the road of this goal that I have. So from a foundational standpoint, I would, I would advise that anybody creates a brand manual. And then another thing to think about really the.

[00:18:37] The way that I write is all I always iterate. I always, you know, do multiple drafts and the first one, and I don't know if I can swear on here, but you're absolutely welcome.

[00:18:48] Veronica: You're absolutely

[00:18:49] Sammi: welcome to, so there's this really great Ann Lamont talks about shitty first drafts. And it's like my favorite thing to think about.

[00:18:56] And one of my professors actually shared that article with me when I was starting in grad school. And, you know, it's like, just get it all out on the page. Just write down anything that you're thinking of without fear or judgment or worrying that it's going to sound. Right. Cause you can always edit it later and you can always, you know, come in and clean it up and get more specific.

[00:19:17] Yeah. And one thing I like to do after that is I read everything that I write out loud to make sure that it sounds right. And it makes sense. And. You know, my poor partner, he hears most of the things that I write. Cause I'll be like, can you sit up? Can you listen to me for 15 minutes? I just need to read this blog to you and make sure it sounds right.

[00:19:34] And if he's not around, maybe I'll read it to my dogs. You know, like anyone who will listen. And I, especially for the more technical things, I'll read it to him and then say, okay, what did you take away from this? What makes sense? What do you think I want you to do next? And if he can't answer one of those questions, I have to go back and rewrite.

[00:19:56] Yeah. So, so that's always been really helpful. I read everything I write out loud. And then a couple of resources elements of style is just classic. I mean, you, you got it. I, you know, I don't think you necessarily need the AP style book unless you're going into media writing. I mean, it's good. It says, yeah, but I don't know if I like octopuses better than octopi.

[00:20:19] That's like a good style joke. But they.

[00:20:23] Veronica: I'll have to tell you this really quickly in my, and on my team, when the AP style starts changing, I guess that's one, the ways are old school. And I said, we're not going to use over. It's more than if you come into my shop. I don't care what AP style says. I am old school, 1998 says, and I don't care what year they changed it, but we are more than we're not over until this day.

[00:20:50] If someone sends me copy with. And I just I'm old school

[00:20:55] Sammi: AP style. See, that's it. Yeah. I always was like, so I obviously I had to teach AP style. But then I was like, well, I mean, you could use some creative license, you know, I really like a serial comma. I, I like having Tama and, and I know, I know it hurts my heart not to have it because I use that example of I'm trying to remember it.

[00:21:17] It was, it was like toast bacon and orange juice or whatever. And you're like, well, that's vacant in orange juice together. But anyway, I think it is a really good foundation. There's a lot of good advice in the AP style book. And if you're just getting started and you want some rules and parameters, that's good.

[00:21:32] Elements of style is even like quicker and dirtier and just a great resource for anyone. It's a quick read it every time I read it, I feel like I sharpened my instruments. And then another book I really recommend is actually called how to read a book. And I read that in. I think I read it in grad school.

[00:21:52] I think I've read it before that too, but it's, it's really a good way to learn how to pull information out of a book. And I really believe that you can't be a good writer unless you're also a voracious reader. And I was that kid, you know, I come out of the library and I'd be like, yeah, struggling with all the books.

[00:22:12] Like I, you know, I think it's really important to be able to To read as much as possible. And I think we just lost Veronica, so hopefully she'll come back. Oh, back.

[00:22:21] Veronica: Sorry.

[00:22:24] Sammi: I was like, I was like, I can add live for a while, so that's okay. But yeah, so I reading is just as important as writing. I'm trying to think if there's anything big.

[00:22:34] I miss, I scribbled down a couple notes beforehand. Those are, those are really the big things that I advise that everybody do. So read your writing out loud. Don't be afraid to make a mistake, you know, do a shitty first draft and maybe at second and third, you know, there's no living on that and, and read everything you can.

[00:22:53] And if there's like a specific. Writing style. You like read everything that that person has written because when it comes out of you, it's going to sound different. It's get filtered through your experience and your skills, but maybe you're trying to capture a certain energy or feeling that's the best way that.

[00:23:12] Veronica: Yeah, no, those are all really great advice. And I'm going to put some of those books in the show notes with links so that people can go and read them. The Strunk and white elements of style is truly just everyone needs to have it, even if you're not writing your own copy, because it will just make you such a more technical aware of writing.

[00:23:30] Yeah, it gets you questioning the words that you write in the order in which you write them. So I really love that you said that, and I have not read how to read a book. So that's a book I'm going to order right away. So thank you for that. So, Tammy, Tammy CME, there are some great tips that you gave us.

[00:23:47] So I'm going to write those out. Reading out loud is probably the one that I think is going to be the most useful for people who aren't doing that yet. And there's something I read recently that talks about. How we process the written word versus how we listen a word. And so I think when you're combining those two, it just makes the element so much more powerful and it gives you the ability to decide if that really makes the connection you intended it to make, or if it.

[00:24:14] So, yeah, I I wrote that down and I underlined it like three times. So I'm going to definitely go back in in the show notes and emphasize reading it out loud. Cause I think that's probably like the gym that people aren't aware of. They assume we do it, but I don't know that people are really doing it because if so then maybe their copy would look a little bit different.

[00:24:31] So that was a really great tip. CME you are into a whole lot of other things besides writing. Tell us about some of the other things you're into and that you're doing. Cause we might see you in different spaces and kind of wonder, Hey, wait a second. Isn't that? The copywriting lady, like, I want to make sure people know where you're at.

[00:24:48] Sammi: Yeah. I mean, I say to people that if I told people everything that I did that day they'd think I was making it up because I just really liked doing a lot of different things. And for a while I did try to. Get very specific. And the more time I sit with it, the more I'm like, you know what, no, this is just me.

[00:25:05] This is all the stuff I like doing. There are connections between them. If you, you know, if you take the time to, to notice them, they are there. But you can find out everything that I do on high sammy.com. I try to keep that updated with whatever projects I have going on. So I I stream on Twitch. So I'll actually be doing that.

[00:25:24] I do that on Saturdays. And then also I've been trying to do Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday is I just started school. So my schedule still kind of getting more acquainted, but every Saturday I stream with a friend on there. I do crafting I play games. I'm planning on doing some more wellness based streams coming up as well.

[00:25:43] I'm in a yoga teacher training right now. So I'm getting my 300 hour. I got my 200 hour earlier this year. That's been really exciting. Thank you. I, so yeah, I started school. I'm getting a second master's degree in nutrition and I have a food blog called dairy free state.com. And I actually have a few blogs, hopefully going up soon.

[00:26:06] And that I started in 2013, just out of frustration. Not like I would buy these dairy free products and they tasted terrible. And I was like, I don't want anyone else to buy those. And I'm like, well, I'm gonna write about it. And then coming up with dairy free recipes for, for things that I loved and, and just testing things and seeing what works.

[00:26:25] So I just put my experience out into a blog and then I started getting feedback from people, oh, this is really useful. I was like, oh, I just kind of use it as my own personal recipe book. And it's become useful to other people. So happy to keep that going. I do some podcasts. So I did a dairy free state podcast kind of retooling for the second season, but I have about 12 episodes out there and I do a podcast called pop culture diner, where I talk about the bachelor with one of my, and it's so fun.

[00:26:56] And then another one of my friends, we talked about horror movies. There might be some more pop culture things coming up on there. And what else do I do? I act and I mean, it's been a little different in the past year and a half, but Twitch has been a really good outlet for that for performance and zoom.

[00:27:12] I've done like zoom, improv shows and stuff, which has been really cool. Yeah, I, and I've done a lot of, I mean, you name it, I've worked with the industry. I'm in, in-house in agencies and in freelance settings, I've worked a lot with healthcare food and beverage. And alternative health, retail, tourism, building materials, logistics an organic farm with, oh wow.

[00:27:40] All kinds of stuff. Professional services you know, technology, you name it. I've probably written about it. I mean, I wrote about like garage door openers ones, padlocks, like just all kinds of stuff. So I'm very good at. You know, getting into what that brand is about and emulating what it is, you know, what their personality is, what it is.

[00:28:03] They're trying to say I've written. And every voice from like the tourism was very punny and jokey and goofy. And you know, when you're writing about. Security product that's you don't want to be jokey with that. Maybe that's where you don't put too much personality and you want to feel very, you know, assured and, and so yeah, I've done all kinds of things like that.

[00:28:24] I feel like I'm probably missing something, but yeah, that's, that's kind of me in a nutshell. I like to stay for this. I

[00:28:31] Veronica: love it. And what I love is that it's, I can see all the little threads and all the little dots. I can see all of that about you and what I know about you and your skills. And at the end of the day, it's really just your creative outlet.

[00:28:42] It just happens to look a little bit differently and all those different spaces, but it's you expressing yourself. And I just love that about you and I love, I love the way you write. I love the way you teach. I've seen some of your sessions and different virtual seminars and online summits, and they're fantastic.

[00:28:59] And so I was just so thrilled to have you on the show and have you kind of share your knowledge and your background and, and hopefully our audience will get some really good tips. And if you want to connect with Sammy it's Hey, sammy.com right there, she's got a contact form on our website and you can connect to there.

[00:29:14] And definitely I'll be adding some of those really great book titles to the show notes so that people can check out.

[00:29:20] Sammi: Awesome. I do have one more resource before we go. If I've got a second. Okay. So one thing that really spoke to me and if, and if you haven't taken it, I would recommend it is called the spark type test.

[00:29:31] And it's just like, what's your primary and secondary spark type, kind of like what ignites you. And my primary spark type is teaching and my second or no, my primary spec type is learning and my secondary is teaching and I was like, oh, that's so true. I, I, my goal is always to learn as much as I can so that I can turn around and teach it to others.

[00:29:51] So that was really eyeopening for me. And that is really what I think is the thread between everything that I do from the highest level. So I would recommend taking the spark type test if you

[00:30:01] Veronica: haven't perfect. I will definitely be doing that because I have not taken it. And I'm anxious to see what mine is too.

[00:30:07] So thank you so much. CME. Why do I keep doing that,

[00:30:12] Sammi: Sam?

[00:30:13] Veronica: I know. And I keep, like, I know better, but it was great chatting. I loved the AP talk because I love talking shop. Anytime we can and words are just so powerful and I admire everything that you're doing and I can't wait to connect in get some of these books so we can chat about.

[00:30:28] Awesome. Sounds good. Thanks so much. All right. Well with that folks, we are wrapping up this episode of Saturday soundbites and. I got to tell you, I love, love, love watching someone express themselves and the way that they were supposed to and use their skills and talents. And Sammy is a phenomenal writer.

[00:30:48] I love watching her teach because I write down notes and I know I'm going to be a stronger writer because of it. And so if you have an opportunity. Go to high sammy.com connect with her. Look at her blogs. If the dairy-free places where you think you want to connect with her, make sure you do that. And make sure that you tell that you heard her on Saturday sale night.

[00:31:08] So with that, we're going to wrap up this episode, make sure that you hit subscribe if you're listening on the podcast so that you can get notified every time we have another episode. And if you're watching on the replay hashtag replay, so both Sammy and I can go back and connect with you and answer any questions you might have.

[00:31:24] So with that, I am wishing you lots of positive energy and light for the week and we'll connect soon. Thanks.