Episode 10

Mad Men Doesn’t Have Anything on Matt Zavala

Welcome Matt Zavala, SVP, Creative Director for Edelman in New York City, to Saturday Soundbites!Matt shares his journey in the creative space and offers insight and tips on how to evolve your career strategy in this space. He has worked on some super exciting projects and campaigns, such as the Dove Real Beauty Campaign, Axe, Suave and many more.

He shares his insight into how and why a campaign needs to align the branding, messaging and the importance of a strong visibility strategy! He shares his insights into what it takes to lead a creative team and how to balance the challenges that come with growing in the creative space.

Matt is a life-long learner and continues to set higher and higher standards for this team as they tap into new communication tools. Nothing beats the inside scope on how a large international advertising agency works! Be sure to check out Matt’s LinkedIn Profile to see more of his great work.

Transcript

Veronica: [00:00:00] Hello? Hello. I'm Veronica V Sofer and we are here with another edition of Saturday soundbites. I am so excited to have you guys here today. I have a very, very special guest, and we're going to learn so much for those of you in the creative space. This is right up your alley. We're going to be talking shop.

[00:00:19] We're going to talk all things, marketing, advertising, branding, messaging, all the things that we like to engage about. So this is going to be a show you don't want to miss. If you are watching us on Facebook, please make sure you give us comments. We'll be able to address those for you. And if you're listening on the podcast, please hit subscribe because we want to make sure that you don't miss any of our episodes.

[00:00:41] So let's go ahead and get started. I know we've got about 30 minutes and I want to make sure you don't miss anything. Our guest today is Matt Savala. He is I'll let him introduce yourself. I'll let him introduce himself cause he's it's worth it. So let me bring that onto the. Stage and we'll start chatting.

[00:00:56] Good morning.

[00:00:58] Matt: [00:00:58] Hello. How

[00:00:59] Veronica: [00:00:59] are you? Wonderful. Wonderful. I'm so glad you agreed to be with us. It's going to rank

[00:01:04] Matt: [00:01:04] top. Awesome. Yeah. I'm that's, Evolla I'm creative director at Edelman, which is a marketing communications firm in New York, so great to be here.

[00:01:14] Veronica: [00:01:14] Great. And can I just tell you that when I was in college, I wish university of North Texas and my degrees in journalism.

[00:01:19] And when I was taking advertising classes, every case study, we read involved Edelman. So for me, that was the, the that's where you want it to be. That's where you wanted to get that intern internship. And so it's just, it's just so exciting that you're

[00:01:32] Matt: [00:01:32] here. Oh, thanks. Well, thanks for having me.

[00:01:34] Veronica: [00:01:34] So tell us how you got started.

[00:01:36] What got you in?

[00:01:38] Matt: [00:01:38] Well, so I, uh, in college, my major was advertising, so I sort of always knew I wanted to be in this space. Um, but I knew I wanted to do something with art as well. So it was advertising was my. Focus. And then graphic design was my minor. Um, and knowing that I also needed to make money. I knew that the advertising marketing world is where I needed to go.

[00:02:00] Um, cause it's very hard as a struggling artists. So, um, yeah, I majored in, in advertising graduated. I was lucky enough to, uh, get, uh, sort of an award with the four A's that brought me to New York city. And that landed me. Creative assistant job at Ogilvy and may there, which is a big agency here in New York.

[00:02:19] Um, and I started just as a creative assistant, just doing all the errands, doing whatever I had to do, but also in the side, taking whatever design jobs I could take from some of the art directors and the, and the, you know, more senior creative folks and be it from designing an email to helping them design banners, all the little things.

[00:02:36] Um, and I was so excited to do that kind of works because I wouldn't want it to break in and eventually just sort of go from there and then. I went from more traditional agencies to digital focus shops. Uh, and back again, and now here I am more in the communications world with Adelman years later.

[00:02:53] Veronica: [00:02:53] I love it.

[00:02:54] I love it. And so would you consider yourself you used the word artist a couple of different times, w at your core, are you an artist? Is that what you, how you identify

[00:03:05] Matt: [00:03:05] if I would anymore? I think back in college, I definitely would have said that. I think now it's more, you know, I identify myself more as a creative.

[00:03:12] Uh, so it's a little more broad, but it also, as a creative, you also have to be business-minded right? Like we don't, we, we have to be, uh, account folks in a way. And when you work in an agency, because you want to make sure you can have build relationships with clients and you can lead them in the right direction to make sure you sell through the work that you're presenting to them, especially from a creative perspective.

[00:03:32] So that word's a little more all encompassing for me. So.

[00:03:35] Veronica: [00:03:35] Yeah, no, I would agree too. And then as a leader, so now in your role, I mean, that's a very impressive title. Um, tell us about the teams that you lead and how you, how you keep that part

[00:03:45] Matt: [00:03:45] running. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's a very fun job because you're always bringing in younger creatives who they blow me away, the level of talent that we have now.

[00:03:56] Um, but you just have to sort of take them under your wing a little bit. Um, it helps if they can get into Photoshop, it helps if they can actually. Right copy. Um, and if not, that's okay. You can sort of help, you know, grow them as creatives and get them to learn that. Um, but on. Uh, the work I do specifically at Edelman is on the Unilever brand.

[00:04:15] So it's all the brands underneath Unilever and they pretty much make everything that's in our lives today. Um, some from dove soap, you hear Axe, body spray, too. Um, all sorts of, you know, everything CPG related, essentially. Um, And so our teams work on Unilever. So we focus on that. And what's great about that being sort of a big umbrella brand is we're never bored because we can always move from one brand to the next.

[00:04:40] It has a different tone, a different style, a different purpose. Um, so, so yeah, so the teams, we were very fluid. We just have to continuously move around from one brand to the next and that keeps it exciting. And I appreciate that. Okay.

[00:04:53] Veronica: [00:04:53] And do you feel like the creatives that work with you or on your team are pretty flexible?

[00:04:57] Are they able to move? Cause I know in our, in our space, um, sometimes we get hyper-focused on one piece of content or we get super knowledgeable about one thing and sometimes it's, it's difficult to transition from healthcare to education, to governmental relations. And so how do you guys deal with that at that?

[00:05:15] Matt: [00:05:15] That's a great question. So you do have people who are specialists at certain types of communications or certain types of creative. To your point, Veronica, if it's like a healthcare that takes a very certain mindset and you have to be very aware of all the legalities involved, what you can say, what you can't do, even from a creative perspective.

[00:05:31] Um, but then you have, you can find creatives who can go a little bit more, um, across the spectrum. So you can work on more fun brands that are a little more, uh, you know, playful in their tone, but then also more serious brands like financial brands. Um, and when we find those creatives, it's good to hold onto them.

[00:05:49] Veronica: [00:05:49] Yeah, I love that. And I love that you were talking about tone because that's one of the things we talk a lot about when we discuss visibility strategy, especially for personal branding. Some of our viewers are entrepreneurs. Some of our viewers work for in the agency space work in the government space, but we're all in this creative space of messaging and personal branding.

[00:06:07] And so you've used the word tone two or three times and that's okay. We talk about that all the time. Tell us how you kind of work through figuring out the right tone for the right product in your space.

[00:06:18] Matt: [00:06:18] That's a really good question. A lot of it is already been preset. So like when you're working on a brand like dove, which is kind of iconic for who they are, when it talks, when they stand for real beauty, whatever that means to the person, but that has been sort of their brand mantra in their DNA for years.

[00:06:33] So you already know. What way do you need to go there when it, when you're working on a brand like Doug, but when you're more established, I'm sorry, upstart brands that aren't as established. Um, for instance, I'm working on a brand like Schmitz right now, which is a very cool, I'm more of an indie brand, I guess you could say that's under the Unilever umbrella, that's still establishing their, their characteristics and what type of brand they are.

[00:06:54] Um, and that's also really fun to work on because you have a lot more freedom there. And it's a lot more about working with the clients and your team and building that sort of helping to understand what that identity is as a brand. Um, and how that comes across in all their messaging.

[00:07:09] Veronica: [00:07:09] And when you, I know we talked about this a little bit off camera, we both lead pretty large teams.

[00:07:14] How has working from home and not being in the same space, affected your creativity? Cause I know for us, sometimes we'll, we'll just huddle for 15 minutes and we need a tagline and the tagline we thought we had, isn't going to work and it's all hands on deck. And we just sit around with cups of coffee and just go to town.

[00:07:32] How are you managing that virtually.

[00:07:34] Matt: [00:07:34] Yeah, that's a great question. It's hard. I'm not going to lie. It's very difficult. Especially in the, in the creative department of an agency, you're used to being in a room and just sitting together and throwing things on a wall and seeing what sticks and what doesn't virtually it's much tougher.

[00:07:48] And, uh, some creators are good at it and it's fine. I personally love to be around people and brainstorm with them in person. Um, but we're making it work. I mean, all you can do is just, you know, Get an hour and everybody jumps into a teams meeting or a zoom meeting and throws things around just like you said, when it's all hands on deck and you're coming up to a client deadline at that point, any idea that's good is going to go forward.

[00:08:11] So it doesn't matter if you're creative, if you're an account manager, if you're in media, any other type of, uh, you know, facet of the agency, wherever the idea comes from is, is, and it's great. We'll go there. So it's a, it's a tough environment, but like you said, it's all hands on deck.

[00:08:26] Veronica: [00:08:26] And do you feel like it's, uh, it's good to be able to have everyone at the table that has a little bit different experience?

[00:08:33] Or do you feel like in an agency environment you're getting that younger fresher kind of outlook on products? Or do you bring in older people or maybe not older people, people with more experience in different spaces?

[00:08:46] Matt: [00:08:46] I think it depends. Like I said, it doesn't matter where the idea comes from. And that's the one thing that I personally hold onto.

[00:08:54] Um, so I'm, I try to be a little bit more open and receptive to bringing in people from other parts of the agency. Um, just because I think that that helps to have a different mindset. And sometimes it's as if you're a creative, you're stuck, you may be stuck with an idea that you can't get out of your head and unfortunately becomes a roadblock.

[00:09:12] Um, so it's always good, I think to have fresh eyes and somebody to come in and just with a new perspective and just. Let it out. And that might be the thing that just gets us over that roadblock. That's that mental roadblock, right? A new idea.

[00:09:23] Veronica: [00:09:23] Yeah. I think we experienced that too on the government side.

[00:09:27] Um, especially if you're in healthcare, because you have to be in, in with COVID. Your messaging has to be even more succinct. So I think for, for, for those of us who always envy the creatives on the advertising side, we're like, Oh, you have all this freedom to create. And we're on the healthcare side and we're on the education side or the finance side and it's stolen sale.

[00:09:49] And sometimes it isn't, sometimes it isn't, but I like the idea of letting everyone just come to the table and letting someone just bring something to the next level that's going to take. The the message forward. So I think you guys have done a great job on that. Tell us about some of the projects that you have worked on in the past.

[00:10:06] That really, um, highlight the things that we're talking about, getting over the

[00:10:11] Matt: [00:10:11] hump. Yeah. Well, I think one thing that was a really rewarding projects in the past, like year and a half, I would say on dove men, uh, every brand at Unilever has to have a purpose, meaning they have to have something that is a social purpose, that's core to who their brand is.

[00:10:27] And so dove men. Uh, they realized that their purpose was paternity leave. So already, already maternity leave in the U S is not good. Um, paternity leave is almost non-existent, uh, and dads need, they need to be there to help raise the child like, um, or they're doing it alone or whatever, like they need that time off.

[00:10:47] Um, so dove men, we were able to convince them that that was their purpose is fighting for paternity paternity leave. And so that was an interesting project because over the course of, uh, over a year, it took, we w. We were able to lobby and go to Capitol Hill lobby Congress, and actually get a law passed to help federal employees get more paternity leave.

[00:11:07] So that's the type of purposeful work. That's really exciting that you don't think is normally in the agency world or could be, um, And for me, I'd never had that experience before I usually as a campaign. Yeah. Like a traditional campaign. But when there's purpose involved, it gets very exciting because it means real changes in the world.

[00:11:23] And so that, that the pledge for paternity leave was the name of the project for dove men. And that was really just rewarding to be part of it. Um, so that's probably the most recent one that actually had some real physical changes in the world. So I was excited about it, but

[00:11:37] Veronica: [00:11:37] yeah, I, I would have never thought an agency would tap into governmental relations.

[00:11:43] I mean, did you normally have a gr. Section or don't don't you usually outsource that, or

[00:11:50] Matt: [00:11:50] that's an interesting thing that Edelman is we actually have a whole capability that's about like working with, you know, laws. And unfortunately me as a creative doesn't know, doesn't know a lot about it, but, um, I work a lot in Photoshop, but, um, that kind of stuff like having that experience just eyeopening.

[00:12:06] Cause I had no idea. I shouldn't, I know it sounds silly. I had no idea how much work has to go into lobbying people and changing minds and, you know, Making real changes in the world. It's a lot of stuff behind

[00:12:17] Veronica: [00:12:17] the scenes. Yeah. And I think that I'm so glad you said that because I think it encompasses, we use the term visibility strategy a lot, but it's not just marketing, advertising, public relations.

[00:12:27] It's not just the three, those three things. It includes government relations or it could, it includes purpose messaging. And I love that you talked about. Being purpose filled because we have a lot of entrepreneurs that are watching too. And when we talk about how we're going to message what they're doing, it all revolves around their purpose.

[00:12:45] So if you're a mindset coach, if you're a fit a financial coach, I mean, whatever kind of coach you are, you have gone into this because you feel like you have a purpose. Right. And you want to share it. And so tapping into that is, is fantastic. Um, well, what kind of tips do you have for someone who's who's in a creative or identifies as a creative or wants to grow up to be a creative?

[00:13:07] And what is the career path look like for someone especially

[00:13:11] Matt: [00:13:11] now? Yeah, I think for me, it was just about taking jobs that no one else wanted at first. Like that was really, truly what I had to do. Um, so I was just really open to opportunities, even if it didn't seem on paper to be the most exciting thing.

[00:13:26] I knew that maybe because. No one's paying attention as much. There might be a way to make that thing better. So I would always grab those types of jobs as, as I was coming up a little bit. And it's, like I said, the ones that are smaller, you can actually have more fun with and you can own a little bit more.

[00:13:42] Um, and then hopefully it's successful and that sort of gets you to the next stage. So that's how he was able to move from a creative stint to a junior art director, art director, creative director on. So, um, that's, that's my advice. Take the jobs. No one wants.

[00:13:57] Veronica: [00:13:57] Oh, that's a great one. I love that. And what, what are you looking for when you're interviewing or when you're mentoring, um, young, young creatives, what are some of the things, um, the advice and wisdom that you, um, provide them?

[00:14:10] Matt: [00:14:10] Yeah. Well, first of all, the most important thing for me is having a point of view. So even if it's different from my own, like, uh, I've been interviewing some people over the past week. And fortunately what I love about this, the younger generation that's coming up is they are not afraid to say what they think, um, at all.

[00:14:27] Uh, and so I, I just love that I'm seeing so much passion. When I talk to different, uh, folks that are looking for a new role, um, and they're eager to do something it's, like we said, in the purpose space, I'm finding that's a big cultural shift right now. And I don't know if it was because of COVID it's been the past four years, whatever.

[00:14:46] Um, but people are really looking to do something that means more than just putting an ad out. Uh, and I appreciate that. And I didn't know that I'd actually be in the space to do that myself. So I, I really love when I see that person that, that passion come

[00:14:58] Veronica: [00:14:58] through. I w and, you know, I think we've probably seen that too.

[00:15:02] Um, especially with young people coming out of college in the last 12 months, they're looking for jobs and all of a sudden they've got us very strong opinion about everything. And I think sometimes, um, I've been on hiring committees with folks who come from a different mindset, a different generational mindset, and.

[00:15:20] Working together and bringing all of those generations, um, together has really improved our overall ability to craft messages. Yeah.

[00:15:29] Matt: [00:15:29] Yeah, I that's so true. You need those points of view, different perspectives. Of course. Um, I also love that this generation coming up out of, out of college right now, they are not, they're not shy and working with somebody who is older.

[00:15:42] Like I remember being, you know, 21 years old and going into the agency world and being completely shy and nervous about talking to a creative director or, you know, a senior art director. And I love that, that this, this type of, you know, this, these. Come up, these kids have to come up. They're just like who?

[00:16:00] I don't care what your title is.

[00:16:04] Veronica: [00:16:04] Peer to peer mentality. Yeah, and you're right. You can be 52 years old and they, they, they could care less. Right, right. Get to the work. Let's get it done. You know, I love that too. And it's interesting. We see that we see that as well, too, in the public sector, as we're crafting messages is we're crafting campaigns, especially in this last election cycle.

[00:16:26] Um, I saw a lot of that too, and it was good that we were able to all. Tap into the shared vision that we had so that our messages could speak to all generations.

[00:16:37] Matt: [00:16:37] Yeah.

[00:16:39] Veronica: [00:16:39] And then for your consumers of the different products, is that something that, um, y'all have to really struggle with? Or is it an easy switch because your products are so appealing.

[00:16:49] How do you manage that with the different products? Well, it depends.

[00:16:52] Matt: [00:16:52] So if you're working on a brand that is more gen Z focused, like a lot of times you, you already know because we have. Planners and strategists who come in with insights in terms of like, here's your consumer they're between 18 and 24 can be like super tight like that.

[00:17:05] Or if it's a dove, it's like your consumers, like 14 to whatever age. So you just have to be able to tailor your messaging and know whom you're talking to. Also note doing your homework. So I'm way too old to be on tech talk, but I have to see what's going on and Tik TOK. So I know that's what all the teens are saying and everything I'm like clubhouse, the new app that everybody's talking about now, brands are looking to infiltrate that it's, you know, you just have to be sort of on understanding what's happening in culture.

[00:17:35] Understanding what's sparking conversation and culture, and really just be knowledgeable about that. So I think it's worth the time for sure. It may seem sort of silly and maybe a little there's much better, more important things to do, but just keeping up with what's going on is a really important thing.

[00:17:51] Veronica: [00:17:51] Yeah, I would Def I'm so glad you said that because I would echo that for those of us who are, have been doing it more than 20 years, the things that we did. Okay. So here's a question I'm going to push pause. Did you ever work in cork express?

[00:18:04] Matt: [00:18:04] I did. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I did. I sure did.

[00:18:08] Veronica: [00:18:08] Literally, the last three or four people I've hired on my team had no idea what cork express was.

[00:18:13] And so for all of you, graphic designers, listening, or watching, and all of you creatives who are in our generation, you know, the transition it took for us to get to Photoshop from courses in design. So. We are talking, we're definitely talking shop now, but I think all that, because there's a little bit of a disconnect in what we learned and what we didn't learn in terms of, of what works in, in our space.

[00:18:37] And it wasn't just the tools. It was the way of thinking. You've, you've alluded to working with strategists and. Having data. And a lot of times, um, that's a step that entrepreneurs don't tap into because they don't have that corporate background that we have. So talk a little bit about the importance of data and strategy and how that works before the creatives get the project.

[00:19:00] Matt: [00:19:00] Yeah, that's a great topic. I, you definitely need to have a strong data point, I think, to help convince the clients that there's a problem you're going to have to solve with the messaging that you're putting out. You're about to get out there. Yeah.

[00:19:11] Veronica: [00:19:11] Say that again, Matt, because those are just so that music to my ears.

[00:19:15] Let's say it

[00:19:15] Matt: [00:19:15] again. So if what you want is a strong insight, strong data that represents that can help you enforce it. Like, look, there's a problem that we want to solve. And as soon as you can, you can identify that problem. It becomes a much easier to come up with the idea. Uh, just because you know what you're tackling and you're new, you know, what you're up against.

[00:19:33] So that's, that's really important before we have creative brief just to have the planners and the strategists work together and sort of tackle that, that insight and that data point and bringing that forward to the briefing, it just sort of kicks everything off and it's like, You just go from there.

[00:19:47] Veronica: [00:19:47] Yeah. That's that's magic. And, and for those of you in another space is if you don't have a team, if you don't have, um, the resources to engage in agency, if you're on your own, you have to start with that very question. What problem are you trying to solve? And if you don't have anyone to have that conversation with habit with yourself, because it is worth, you're going to waste so much time and money coming up with Facebook ads or whatever, kind of.

[00:20:14] Marketing plan. You're thinking of utilizing, if you don't have that question identified and nailed

[00:20:19] Matt: [00:20:19] down, that's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. You definitely need to have that. And like you said, if even if you're on your own, it's just going on Google and start searching for things that, you know, in your heart, you want to.

[00:20:30] Fix and or that the brand is right to fix your client can help fix, and that's a good way to go at it.

[00:20:37] Veronica: [00:20:37] And, uh, what would you say to people who are considering working with an agency, obviously your agency's top tier Manhattan. You know, you're working with big corporations, but there are other boutique agencies and some that tailored to, um, small businesses, small brick and mortar.

[00:20:51] What would you say to a business owner who's considering working with an agency? What are the things you need to be looking

[00:20:56] Matt: [00:20:56] for? Yeah, I think first is just making sure you feel strongly about the relationship and that you have people that you're going to trust because an agency's job is to make sure that.

[00:21:05] They are going to take when you need to get done and get it done, but only you can only do that if you and the agency trust each other and feel good about each other. And, um, you know, if, if I were on the client side, I would want to make sure the team that's representing my brand has my brand's best interest at heart all the time.

[00:21:23] Um, and also have them push back on me if I'm a client, I really think this is the way to go. But then. As we were talking earlier about having data insight that says actually should go this way. Um, I would appreciate that, that push a little bit, the guidance, I should say, um, to say, you know what? We hear you, but there's something bigger.

[00:21:41] So, um, and, and, and bigger doesn't mean huge. Like it just means whatever level of business size you are. I think that's just something I, I would appreciate an agency to help guide me towards.

[00:21:52] Veronica: [00:21:52] Yeah, I love that. And I've worked with different size agencies, super small ones and very large national based ones as well.

[00:21:58] And I would say the number one benefit is that personal relationship and the ability to push back and do so in a way that challenges your thinking, um, so that you can both mutually get to the right message because you may not always win, but you influence it.

[00:22:17] Matt: [00:22:17] Yeah, there's definitely an art to it. And you don't want to ever be too pushy or bullish.

[00:22:21] Um, but like you said, you want to hold their hand and bring them with you.

[00:22:25] Veronica: [00:22:25] Yeah. And for those of us that are in, um, the entrepreneur space, that's what, what's what we try to do with our clients. We talk about, Oh, well you want your font to look like this? Well, comic Sans probably isn't the right conference for an architect or.

[00:22:40] You know, and a financial planner. And so those, the subtleties of, of having an expert with that artistic eye really helps I think.

[00:22:50] Matt: [00:22:50] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that's, that's a great point about brand tone, and we've been talking about that quite a bit, but, um, as, as an agency person, you want to understand what the brand's tone is and then offer them a plethora of options that can, can bring that tone to life.

[00:23:04] Whether it's through typefaces, pallets, colors, you know, uh, copy, whatever it may

[00:23:08] Veronica: [00:23:08] be. Yeah. Oh, you're speaking all my favorite things. I, if I could just spend all day with color palettes and typefaces, I'd be in heaven. So this is my inner nerd is definitely coming out. So we only have a few minutes left, but do you have any last, last tips that you want to offer to folks or share with us?

[00:23:24] Some of the things that you're up to right now, I know you've got really exciting things on your plate. I

[00:23:29] Matt: [00:23:29] wish I could talk more about it. We just did a shoot last week, which is really exciting for a brand and it's with a big sports star. And I can't say anything more than that, but, um, Shooting remotely has been crazy, but also really exciting.

[00:23:41] So we're learning how to flex that muscle a bit. Um, so that I'm really excited to get out there. Um, and then I, I think my biggest tip is just, like I said earlier, is taking the things that other people don't necessarily want to pay attention to is, is sometimes the best way to go. So, or people who are coming into the agency world, or even just, you know, looking to flex their creative muscles a bit take on jobs that you may not actually.

[00:24:05] Think is exactly it. That's not, that's not the end goal or whatever, but it's the little things that will get you that end goal.

[00:24:12] Veronica: [00:24:12] Yeah. I love it. And the more you can do to beef up your portfolio is just going to be, it's going to pay off in the end. Yeah. A hundred

[00:24:19] Matt: [00:24:19] percent.

[00:24:21] Veronica: [00:24:21] Yeah. I love it. I love it. All right.

[00:24:23] And so, okay. Before I have to let you go, tell me, uh, tell me about working with Ms. You know, Ms rhymes and all the dove products that you got to work on, because I didn't want to get all, you know, fan girlish, but I can't help.

[00:24:38] Matt: [00:24:38] No, we were very lucky to work on a project with her a couple of years back. And it was actually, it was an interesting project because it was for dove and I've worked on L'Oreal Paris before I've worked in a lot of brands in the beauty space.

[00:24:51] And the one realization I had when I was given this brief was that behind the scenes. It's mostly men who are doing all these shoots, ironically enough on brands that are telling women how to feel beautiful. So that project and I was like, this is ridiculous. So that was a project where I sort of had to write myself out of the PR job a little bit.

[00:25:11] And we created an all female production crew. And this usually a few years ago was radical at the time. Now it's like, why wouldn't that happen? Um, and think, gosh, that's the case. But the Shonda Rhimes was essentially our. Creative director on the project. So we worked with her and established a documentary films that we created and shot over the course of a year.

[00:25:30] Um, we had a TVC that went live at the Emmy's PR promoting the whole project. So it was nice that again goes back to purpose and, uh, working with her is awesome. She's uh, I mean, it can be incredibly intimidating to get on a phone call with her and present your thoughts for the next, the next documentary are going to be doing so, but amazing.

[00:25:50] Like what a great. That's

[00:25:52] Veronica: [00:25:52] so exciting. I love it. And I love the purpose, but what I love most about it is that you all captured it. Yeah. You, you captured that transition and yeah, it was 2019 or whatever year. It was 20, 20, 2019. When you all were doing that work. And to think that that was revolutionary in the, in the industry, in this space that we have been, you know, you watch Madmen and you have this perception of what advertising life was like back then and how far we've come, but really.

[00:26:19] How far had we come.

[00:26:20] Matt: [00:26:20] Right, right. Not very far to be honest. So it's nice to see that, you know, sometimes you just need a culture shift to happen, and sometimes it happens very quickly and it needed to be that way. Um, unfortunately now I know with, with Edelman, I believe we're at 50%, uh, female.

[00:26:36] Representation in terms of the agency. So, um, yeah, and we need to be because how could we talk to, to women if we don't have that looked perspective? Um, so it's, so it's such an obvious thing, but thank gosh, it's happening.

[00:26:50] Veronica: [00:26:50] Yeah, no, I love it. I love it. All right. So we're, we're wrapping up here, but, um, full disclosure for those of you watching, uh, Matt and I are cousins, we are first cousins.

[00:26:59] I don't know. Yeah. I know if people can see the resemblance, but we do have pictures of us when we were much, much younger. And, um, so here we are now, and I love that we're both in the creative space.

[00:27:12] Matt: [00:27:12] It's so

[00:27:13] Veronica: [00:27:13] rewarding. It really is because I love talking shop. I love all the things that you're doing. And I brag about you all the time, because I think more people need to know that there's options for creatives and you don't just have to be a copywriter and you don't have to be a newspaper reporter.

[00:27:29] Um, there are, and not that those jobs aren't fantastic. They are, but a lot of people want to transition. And we've got viewers that I know that are transitioning out of traditional media. Into the other side, they always talk about going to the other side. Well, I was a reporter for 15 years, and then I went to the other side and now they're in public relations or advertising, but it's all about messaging, but more importantly, it's all about storytelling.

[00:27:52] That's right. We're all storytellers. And I love that. We share that in common. So, um, Nat, thank you so much for joining us

[00:28:00] Matt: [00:28:00] for having me.

[00:28:01] Veronica: [00:28:01] It was so much fun. Awesome. Alright. Well, we will move you backstage and thank everyone for joining us. I hope you enjoyed this edition of Saturday soundbites. I love talking.

[00:28:12] All things, public relations, advertising, marketing, visibility, strategy, branding, messaging, folks. This is for everyone, whether or not you're an entrepreneur, small business owner, brick and mortar, whatever space you're in messaging is going to drive what it is you do. And yeah. Take some of the things that Matt said to heart, it's all about purpose and living your purpose filled life.

[00:28:34] So thank you so much for joining us. If you are listening on the podcast, make sure you hit subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes. And we will see you next week and I'm sending you lots of positive energy and light.