Episode 4

Speaking Your Way to Success with Vanessa Wasche

Welcome Vanessa Wasche, Owner/Founder at On Point Speaking, to discuss "Speaking Your Way to Leadership - A Coach's Perspective." She will be sharing some powerful tips on how to leverage your voice and craft your message to grow your business. Vanessa is a powerful coach and is a published writer. Check out some of her latest articles in major national publications: FastCompany - https://tinyurl.com/y4hrlha4, and https://tinyurl.com/y56apdre.

Transcript

Veronica: [00:00:00] Welcome to Saturday soundbites. Hello? Hello. My name is Veronica Sofer and I'm so excited that you guys are joining us today. We have a phenomenal guest. You guys are just going to love the content here in Saturday soundbites. We talk about all things, visibility, public relations, advertising, marketing, you name it.

[00:00:21] The guests today is going to give you some amazing content. That's really going to be able to give you some actionable items and help. You catapult your business. So thank you so much for tuning in. If you are listening on our podcast, please make sure you hit subscribe. We want to make sure you don't miss any of our amazing episodes.

[00:00:38] And if you're watching on the replay, let us know type in the comments, hashtag replace. So we know how we can follow up with you and answer any questions you might have. And if you have any questions during the broadcast here, make sure you type them and we will certainly address them. So. Without further ado.

[00:00:55] I see. We've got viewers can hop it on. I'm going to introduce our fantastic guests. She's from OnPoint speaking. We have miss Vanessa Walsh. Hello, Ms. Wash. How are you? I am so good. How are you? We are great. We're great. Thank you so much for being here, Vanessa. You guys. I didn't know that there was speaking coaches out there who were also writing phenomenal content until I solved the nest is article in fast company.

[00:01:22] So I figured she was the perfect person to bring on Saturday soundbites. Vanessa, tell us about yourself. Well, first

[00:01:29] Vanessa: [00:01:29] of all, I have a surprise for you and I brought my own V mug. I love it. When we first spoke on the phone, we were talking about the name. So I had to bring my V mug for this interview.

[00:01:44] Veronica: [00:01:44] I love it.

[00:01:45] That's perfect. I normally have mine with me, but today I finished my coffee a little bit early.

[00:01:49] Vanessa: [00:01:49] I would love it. I'm originally from Minneapolis, Minnesota, where I am based right now. And then I started my career in acting. So I have a master's degree from. New York university. And after doing TV, film, bunch of plays, I decided to raise my family in Minneapolis.

[00:02:08] I mean, I would've loved to do it in New York, but after schlepping up on the subway so many times I thought I don't want to do this with a stroller. So I moved back to Minneapolis and as I started to. I was coaching some high school speech students. And in high school, I was a huge fan of the speech team.

[00:02:28] I was captain of the speech team for my junior and my senior year. And I've always had a huge love for public speaking and performing. So I started getting into, okay, well, what is this? Like, what I wonder if people do this professionally. And so I started working for another company called executive speaking, and that's where I got my start in my career.

[00:02:47] So after working with executives speaking for a few years, I found that there was a real need, especially during the pandemic. For virtual coaching. So that's when I branched off and started my own business on point speaking, which brought us here today.

[00:03:01] Veronica: [00:03:01] That's awesome. That is so awesome. So tell us, it sounds like you work with, uh, know professional executives and managers, but now all of a sudden there's a need on the online space.

[00:03:11] And, and a lot of our viewers and listeners are, um, online entrepreneurs. So how do you help entrepreneurs and what are some of the tips and things that they need to be thinking about as they're. Growing their presence and they're growing their online business and really trying to connect with people virtually well, you know, it's so

[00:03:28] Vanessa: [00:03:28] interesting because communication takes so many different forms and most of the time people first meet on the phone.

[00:03:35] So there's that communication. And now since the pandemic. Virtual communication on camera. Communication has become the primary form of communication. So back in March, what I noticed is that as teams were having meetings, as I worked with executives, and even as your first meeting with clients, this is your first impression.

[00:03:57] And I think that a lot of people didn't know what to do. So one of the biggest tips that I give my clients, I've heard about this in fast company, too. I have an article about leadership presence over a webcam or a zoom camp. And so I would say one of the biggest tips and I'll show you right now, as I'm talking to you, Veronica, I pretend that you're on the other side of the camera.

[00:04:18] So I'm actually looking into the camera right now and you get the sense that I'm speaking with you. But the trap for most people, when they first get on zoom, Skype teams, WebEx is that they look at themselves. So now I'm literally looking at you and at your face. And so it doesn't really look like we have that much of a connection because I'm looking at you now look at the difference when I go back to the camera.

[00:04:40] Oh, you get the sense that I'm speaking with you. So a common question that I get is, well, how do I judge the person's reaction? If I'm looking into the camera? Well, you kind of have to split your time. So as I'm looking at you, and as I'm looking into the camera, I can check down every now and then to see, Oh yeah, you're still there.

[00:04:57] We still have an internet connection. See if you're reacting to me. And so that's a quick tip that I can give to a lot of the people that are watching right now. But the other thing that I really find is interesting is that we want to watch ourselves. I mean, why not? We're right there. Oh, how's my hair doing?

[00:05:12] How's this attracting, so I have told some clients, if you're just too distracted by your own appearance, go ahead and put a sticky note or try not to watch yourself. If you can, sometimes that's just unavoidable, but if you can, your focus should be when you're speaking on the webcam. Now, when you're listening.

[00:05:30] You can go ahead and watch the other person so you can respond to what they're doing.

[00:05:35] Veronica: [00:05:35] Wow. Yeah. I hadn't thought about that. That makes complete sense. And quite honestly, it may have been that very article that I read in fast company that had me Google you and reach out to you on LinkedIn. And I think it had something to do with, um, Women and tips specifically for women and our appearance and how we were managing.

[00:05:53] And it was such a great, and I'll tell you, my boss actually forwarded that link to all the executive cabinet, because we were just trying to figure out, we were just transitioning to working at home. Some of us had, you know, piled up laundry and dogs and toddlers running around in the background. And it was like, how are we going to conduct business in such a way that we still.

[00:06:16] Keep that professional decorum amongst ourselves and live with the reality that there may be four or five people in the home, all using internet at the same time. So I love your thoughts on, on how to juggle all of that. Well,

[00:06:29] Vanessa: [00:06:29] and it's interesting too, because a couple of years ago, I think it was, I don't know, two or three years ago that poor CNN anchor had a child come in.

[00:06:37] We all went, Oh, I've done that. And now that everybody's doing webcams, we've become used to it. And you know, you and I were speaking before about distractions. And I wrote about this too. It's so easy. You know, if my kids walk in right now, I'm not going to get flustered because I've told myself, you know what everyone is going through.

[00:06:54] This just don't apologize for it. If you need to turn off your camera, go ahead and just excuse yourself, turn off your camera. Deal with what you need to deal with and come right back in the game.

[00:07:03] Veronica: [00:07:03] Yeah, absolutely. And so what about entrepreneurs who are juggling both theirs back in the office? Um, they're calling on clients and they're not necessarily on the online space because a lot of people still had to conduct business with masks.

[00:07:20] And, you know, they're, they're covered up a little bit and you have talked and I've read some of the content and specifically, um, on your website. And we'll share that, share that link in just a minute about facial gestures, hand gestures, how we move, and I'm actually cognizant of it now, as I'm using those words.

[00:07:37] So I'd love any tips or training that we can share with our audience on. Not just this virtual world we're living in, but when we are engaging with people face to face and that kind of impression it makes,

[00:07:49] Vanessa: [00:07:49] you know, it's interesting is that whenever I tell anybody or meet anybody for the first time, and I say, I'm a communications coach, they start to watch themselves.

[00:07:56] And I see this start to watch themselves. And I'm like, no, no, no, you, I want you to be you. That's what it's all about is authenticity. But I think I've coached a lot of clients in the virtual space who have had to wear a mask because they are in an office setting and that's where they are and they're with other people.

[00:08:13] And it's interesting, especially with masks, a lot of your facial expressions are going to be through your eyes and a lot of your facial expressions are taken away. So when you're dealing with that, It really has to come down to your hand gestures. And what I like to say is that energy always wants to go somewhere.

[00:08:31] So if we inhibit ourselves and we don't allow ourselves to gesture naturally, Energies one, it is going to want to get out. So sometimes I've seen people wheel in their chair. I've had people really walk in their chair like this, you know, if they're nervous. And so, especially over a webcam, a lot of people say I've been told not to gesture over a webcam because it's distracting.

[00:08:51] But if you're not doing anything and I'm talking to you, like this would be a very boring interview and I look not authentic and it doesn't, it doesn't come alive. So you really want to gesture when you want to and allow yourself to do that, especially over a webcam, but not only in virtual settings in person too, because we get so much more out of communication when you're out, when you allow yourself to gesture.

[00:09:15] But also when you can show. Different things with your gestures and what I mean by that if I were to talk to you about company a and company B. So I was going to say, okay, Veronica, I want to talk to you about two different companies. The first company I want to talk to you about is company a and then I want to talk to you about company B.

[00:09:31] Okay, well, you get the idea of what I'm talking about. But look at the difference when I can actually show you what those two look like. So if I were to talk to you about, okay, let's talk about company a and company a has XYZ product and that's company a, but now let's talk about company B and company B has XYZ product.

[00:09:49] Oh, now you have a visual. Of what I'm talking about. So if I wanted to jump back and forth about the differences between the two, it helps clarify your communication.

[00:09:59] Veronica: [00:09:59] Yeah. That's a great point. And for our podcast listeners who are listening, um, via audio, I think even though we may not have been able to see your hand gestures, your cadence changed.

[00:10:09] I mean, I noticed it because when you were sitting like this and talking your voice kind of made a more monotone. Delivery. And then as you were using your hands, even though our audio listeners, can't see your hands, I can visualize it because I could hear those movements in your voice. If that makes sense.

[00:10:27] This is the

[00:10:27] Vanessa: [00:10:27] other thing. I coach voice a lot with some clients. That's what they need, because they'll say my voice is too monotone. I don't like my voice. I want my voice to be higher. I want my voice to be a lot lower, but. Body and voice like you were just mentioning are so connected. So when we allow ourselves to use our bodies, our voices change as well.

[00:10:48] So I'm glad that you noticed that because I've also told people if you have a phone call, especially if you have a sales call, get up, walk around, be animated because it'll make your voice animated too. And I'm not, I'm not reinventing the wheel here. Many people have said this, but it really does change your voice.

[00:11:05] Yeah,

[00:11:05] Veronica: [00:11:05] absolutely. I don't know if you're on clubhouse yet, but it is the most addictive thing I have ever engaged. I mean, I can give up all sweets. I can give her everything as long as I have my clubhouse and I will tell you, um, it's interesting how business is being conducted on clubhouse now because it's all audio and in preparing for today's.

[00:11:30] Um, Joe, in conversation with you, I really started to make the connections about how people engage on clubhouse and their voices. And I was actually in the market, um, for a new program and a new course I'm wanting to do in a different space. And honestly, I really liked someone's content, but once I heard them in one of those rooms, the delivery that they were giving just didn't resonate with me.

[00:11:54] So what kind of advice do you have for entrepreneurs who are just logging into clubhouse and learning it? And what are some of the things that you've noticed on that platform?

[00:12:03] Vanessa: [00:12:03] Well, I am very new to it as well. And I actually had somebody else reach out to me who read one of my fast company articles and said, do you know about clubhouse?

[00:12:12] And I said, no, what is that? And they sent me an invitation and then I was kind of exploring around in it. I thought this is a great platform. And as I started to listen similar to you, it's like, that is what I'm going to call. Your only visibility is your voice on clubhouse. So, like I said, same thing, that idea on the phone, if you can make sure that if you want to move around, you can move around that you're using your.

[00:12:38] Body as you speak. But the other thing, if you're going to host a room and you're very good at this, because you have a good agenda for these interviews, it's nice to have an agenda before you want to interview someone. Or even if you are the guest, having some, if you could get the questions in advance, that would be great.

[00:12:57] So you can have some answers that are standard, or at least, you know what you're going to say, and that. Help. So, so, so much. Yeah,

[00:13:06] Veronica: [00:13:06] it definitely moves the room. And, um, for those of you who are non clubhouse, it's I equate it to what we did in the eighties is get on a party line and you'd have 10 or 15 people with the telephone kind of, you know, Snuck under your door in your bedroom.

[00:13:21] So your parents didn't know you were on the phone all night with 20 other people just chatting. And it was very similar to that, except it's just a little more organized. I

[00:13:30] Vanessa: [00:13:30] forgot about that. The party lines, those were great.

[00:13:36] Veronica: [00:13:36] Yeah. And we're doing it. I mean, the irony is we're doing it again. Um, with just a focus on what it is we're interested in, whether it's. Business or entrepreneurship or, um, there's a lot of rooms on wellness and we should definitely moderate a room together. Cause I think we could talk about this topic a lot,

[00:13:55] Vanessa: [00:13:55] the communication, like it's so confusing.

[00:13:58] And a lot of times people, when they think about communication, they think, Oh, I want to be better at that, but they don't know how. And so when I usually coach clients, I like to think of giving them a toolbox or choices because. I've been reading this book it's called smarter, faster, better. And it's a great book because he talks about how to feel in control.

[00:14:20] And so you really start to feel in control when you are allowed to make choices. And so when I started reading that, I thought, well, that's so true about communication too, because as soon as you start to give yourself small choices in the moment, you start to feel very much in control and that helps mitigate a lot of tension nerves, anxiety.

[00:14:41] And a lot of people will ask me, well, how do I have more leadership presence? Well, one of the ways you can have better leadership presence is that you're relaxed enough to be your most authentic self. And to me, that is the best example of leadership

[00:14:55] Veronica: [00:14:55] presence. Yeah, definitely. Wow. That's really powerful.

[00:14:59] And I am going to have to read that book. I haven't read it. What do you think? Um, I hear a lot of people say, and especially on social media and Facebook groups. Oh, I'm an introvert. I'm an introvert. And then people identify as an introvert yet. They are engaging in such a way that's authentic. Um, and then some of us who identify as extroverts don't really know what that means.

[00:15:22] And it turns out we may not really be extroverts. How do you discern that with a client and help coach them as they're working towards meeting their business goals?

[00:15:32] It's

[00:15:32] Vanessa: [00:15:32] interesting because a lot of times what people think they are is not necessarily how they present themselves. For example, I've worked with many people who consider themselves introverts and are dynamic speakers, and I've had people be considered themselves extroverts and they need a lot of help in the public speaking realm.

[00:15:50] So it really comes down to how you're presenting yourself. I would consider myself an extroverted introvert because there are times where I'm like, I want to be alone. I don't want to be around people. But I also really enjoy being with people as well, but it comes down to how do you manage yourself when you are presenting in front of people?

[00:16:10] So a lot of that has to do with reducing tension, reducing nerves, reducing anxiety, but the other piece is having your present herself. And I'm not saying don't be, you. But it's similar to, okay. If you were to go to a baseball game, what are you going to wear? You're probably going to wear jeans and a t-shirt and a baseball.

[00:16:29] But if you were to go to an opera, would you wear jeans and a t-shirt and a baseball cap? Probably not. So you have to put on your gala gown or your ball gown, and that's how you go, but you're still you. So I like to use that comparison because when you are presenting, it's a different version of yourself, but it's still you.

[00:16:47] It's just a different clothing. If you will.

[00:16:50] Veronica: [00:16:50] Oh, that's I hadn't thought about it that way. That's so true. And I think sometimes entrepreneurs, especially in the online space, struggle with knowing when to do that and when not to do it. So it's interesting that, um, you put up, um, An example like that, an illustration like that, because he really could be putting on your mom hat.

[00:17:09] If that's what you're talking about, you can put on your, uh, if you're in network marketing, your network marketing kind of salesy hat, and you can just change those personas and still be authentically you and how you're communicating. So I think that's a, that's a great example. I love that. What kind of tips, um, do you all, do you share with your clients about, um, how to, how to engage in and, and really.

[00:17:30] The steps that you can take to start making that improvement towards a more effective communicator. I think it's all

[00:17:38] Vanessa: [00:17:38] about self-awareness and that is so painful sometimes because we really have to get to know ourselves. And so what I do when I coach clients in the first hour, is it typically interview them over the camera like this, to see how they think, how they organize their ideas, how they move their body.

[00:17:56] How they gesture anything like that. So, and how they're using their voice. Those are the main areas that I start to look for and then kind of go into the micro from there. But what I typically do is I'll record that session and then they can watch it back. And it's very important for them to see themselves because.

[00:18:14] As painful as that could be or sound to some people, as soon as they start to become aware and go, Oh, I have no idea. I was doing that. For example, I was working with a client the other day and every time she was thinking about a new idea, she would raise her, head, her eyes to the top of her head like this.

[00:18:32] So she looked back on her head. But if you're doing that every couple of minutes, It looks like you're rolling your eyes. And so I was talking to her about that and she said, Oh my gosh, you're right. I didn't even know it was doing that. So I was showing her herself, but I will say this the biggest obstacle.

[00:18:48] When working with clients is getting them out of their aesthetic idea of themselves. Because the first two minutes, what are we doing? If I show you our screens back, I would be watching myself and thinking, Oh, I really should have done my hair different or, Oh, that zits on the way, or, Oh man, I have so many wrinkles or we start to think about our aesthetic self versus our communication.

[00:19:09] So my biggest challenge with most people. Is getting them to stop focusing on what they look like, but rather how they're communicating.

[00:19:20] Veronica: [00:19:20] Yeah. And would you, would you say that that's, um, that that's how other people see them? I mean, do you think that initially when you're getting on a call with someone, especially a virtual call, they spend just a few seconds noticing you, but then after a while they started lists or very quickly after that, You start noticing the words that are being said, and then start looking past all that.

[00:19:38] Or do you feel like that's still a challenge for the listener? I

[00:19:43] Vanessa: [00:19:43] think both. And I also think that it's interesting when I speak to people on the phone first and I don't know what they look like. And then I see them visually. Sometimes their voice will match what I thought they looked like on the phone.

[00:19:57] Sometimes their voice doesn't match at all. What I thought they looked like on the phone. So sometimes it's shocking to me to go, Oh, that's what you look like. Okay. And then we go into the communication aspect. So when you first meet somebody, yes, there's a. There is a point where I go, Oh, okay. That's what you look like.

[00:20:12] And then it kind of fizzles out from

[00:20:14] Veronica: [00:20:14] there. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably true. And I guess that's really, the greatness of clubhouse is oftentimes you're left wondering, I wonder what this person looks like. If you're engaging with someone on Instagram or on Facebook or in a zoom format, you, you get it.

[00:20:29] Initially that, that combination that you can connect and your brain starts making all those connections and you've okay, I've identified this person. This is the category. I've put them in. And, and this is how I'm listening them. But then on a clubhouse, you really don't have that other part. And so the voice, the cadence, um, any maybe little nuances or speech impediments or all of that really play into.

[00:20:53] Your, uh, perception of who that person is. And so I think that that's a challenge for a lot of us. So I'm really excited to get into that new platform and see where it leads us. Yeah. And I think, you know, the thing with clubhouse too, is I

[00:21:07] Vanessa: [00:21:07] think about favorite voices that I, like one that comes to mind is Terry Gross on freshman year.

[00:21:14] I love her show and I never knew what she looked like. And then I finally saw her and I'm like, okay. I think her voice matches what she looks like, but it is interesting when you meet people vocally. The differences when you see them in person.

[00:21:27] Veronica: [00:21:27] Well, tell us Vanessa, how can people work with you? I mean, you clearly have a lot of expertise.

[00:21:32] You are credentialed in a lot of different ways and have had a lot of success. Helping people publish author. I love fast company. That's truly one of my favorite magazines. And so I love seeing your content in there, but tell us how people can work with you and what that looks like.

[00:21:48] Vanessa: [00:21:48] So the website, obviously, would you have.

[00:21:51] Right there on point speaking.com is the best way, because you can get an idea or a sense of the kind of programs that I offer. For personal coaching or private coaching. I typically work with clients on for four hours. What I call a fundamental four hour program and that's to really brush up your skills, organize your ideas, and then it's more about what you need.

[00:22:14] And I tailor every program to the specific client. Sometimes they need voice training. Sometimes they want to have more impact in their gestures. Sometimes they need to. Present, present better virtually sometimes it's okay. I need to organize this PowerPoint or I have to sell this product. And I only get five minutes to do it.

[00:22:32] How am I going to do that? So a lot of it comes down to content and some of it comes down to how you are presenting. So that four hour program is what I start with. That being said, not everybody meets that. For example. Some people will call me and say, I have a huge interview coming up. I don't need four hours.

[00:22:50] I only need an hour to work with you to really brush up on my interview skills. Absolutely. You don't have to just do the four hour program. Also sometimes people will take the four hour program and say, Ooh, that's exactly what I need. Thank you so much. And then we keep in touch. Other times clients will take the four-hour program and they'll keep in touch with me for the rest of the year.

[00:23:11] And we continue working and have a scope of work. So that's the private coaching. The other area where I'm starting to get into is coaching teams. And I love coaching teams because you get so many different personalities, so many different communication styles, and you can really find what the strengths are in a group's communication style, but also individually.

[00:23:32] And then they get to learn from the individual speaking styles and kind of steal from each other and find out what works for that person in particular. So with teams, I customize programs, I've done anywhere from a two hour program to an eight hour program with many different companies. So it's usually either team coaching or private coaching.

[00:23:51] Veronica: [00:23:51] Got it. And we've got some network marketing teams that are pretty active in my group in particular. So I know we've got some network marketing leaders that watch and, and, um, engage in our group. Is that something that, uh, a leader who maybe has five or six real active team members can engage you.

[00:24:09] Vanessa: [00:24:09] Absolutely. Yes. Yes. I'm going to be working with a group of 10 in the next couple of weeks, and I'm excited to work with them because they are working on a huge product. That's brand new to their company and they have to learn how to pitch it. And so the thing about that is everyone wants to have the same message of the company.

[00:24:29] But if you just have a standard script to sell this product, it's not going to sell because you have to be able to sell it your way authentically, but have the same story. So how do you craft the story your way? And that's what I really really started to develop with teens is what's the story behind XYZ product.

[00:24:48] And how can you deliver that in a way that's authentic to you that you're really going to connect with somebody on the client

[00:24:53] Veronica: [00:24:53] end. Right. And that's just so important. And again, the reason why I thought I, you would be perfect for this show is we talk all things visibility and it's not just advertising, marketing, public relations.

[00:25:06] It's not just the written word. It's the spoken word, it's your presence. It's your aura is all of those things come together. And I think you gave us some amazing content. Um, that's really going to be helpful to people. So I'm just so excited that you decided to spend some time with us on a Saturday morning.

[00:25:22] Yes,

[00:25:23] Vanessa: [00:25:23] me too. I like one mornings. I think they're nice. We usually do pancakes in my house, but.

[00:25:29] Veronica: [00:25:29] That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, we did oatmeal in my house, so we started on healthy today. Well, thank you so much, Vanessa. I love having another V person on the show. It was pastor Rick and guys. Seriously connect with her.

[00:25:43] Go read her content. Her blogs have also got some great information. She's got some great videos. Follow her on LinkedIn and her social media assets. Where's the best place for people to reach you.

[00:25:55] Vanessa: [00:25:55] Honestly, the website is the best because we can schedule on the website and you know, sometimes it might be busy.

[00:26:01] Sometimes we may not. Then you can find a time for us to speak that is easy for you and easy for me. So we have a calendar on the website that you can schedule a call. So that's the best way to get ahold of me is to go to OnPoint speaking.com.

[00:26:14] Veronica: [00:26:14] Great. All right, Vanessa. Thank you so much for joining us. It was wonderful to have you so much

[00:26:20] Vanessa: [00:26:20] for having me.

[00:26:20] I really appreciate it.

[00:26:22] Veronica: [00:26:22] This is amazing guys. On point kean.com. It's right there on your screen. It's in the show notes. If you're listening on the podcast, thank you so much for tuning in. Um, we've got an amazing guest next week scheduled for you again on this on, um, Saturday sound bites. We talk all things, visibility, marketing, public relations, advertising, how to get.

[00:26:42] Placed in media, how to write some content, how to deliver great content. All of those things are part of your visibility strategy. So we want to make sure that you have the resources to grow your business, develop your personal brand. If you're working a nine to five, be able to improve all of those things, to get you where you need to be so that people are watching you and listening to what it is you have to say.

[00:27:05] So. If you are listening on the podcast, please hit subscribe. Check out the show notes, go check out. Vanessa's work. You're going to love it. Follow us on Facebook. We are. We've got a great group community. Magnifying your message with media. That group is growing. Thank you so much. Follow me at Ronica V Sofer, uh, both on Instagram clubhouse and on Facebook, and be sure to check out the website, Monica B sofer.com.

[00:27:31] Thank you so much for tuning in and we will see you next Saturday for another edition of Saturday.